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Sources for Lactic Acid Bacteria, especially ''[[Lactobacillus]]'', are available in various forms such as unpasteurized products and probiotics. This page contains a list of sources that Milk The Funk members have experimented with, and their results. Note that the production of products such as probiotics may not be as sanitary as brewing industry yeast manufacturers, so without isolating these bacteria on agar plates, they can not cannot be considered pure cultures. Methods contained on this page use only materials that a typical homebrewer would have on hand and are geared towards brewers without agar plating capabilities. For information on isolating pure cultures of ''Lactobacillus'' with selective media on agar plates, see the [[Lactobacillus#Selecting_for_on_Agar|''Lactobacillus'']] and [[Wild_Yeast_Isolation|wild yeast isolation]] pages. For more information on using ''Lactobacillus'' to sour wort or kettle sour, see [[Wort Souring]]. For more information on mixed fermentation, see [[Mixed Fermentation]].

[[File:Green_man_berliner.jpg|thumb|Mike Karnowski from Green Man Brewery Blueberry Berliner Weisse made from a yogurt starter]]''Yogurt Souring'' refers to the method of souring wort using unpasteurized yogurt. Greek yogurt is often made with ''Lactobacillus acidophilus'', a lactic acid producing bacteria that is also associated with some health benefits <ref>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_acidophilus Lactobacillus acidophilus Wikipedia page. Retrieved 3/3/2015.]</ref>. Using cultures of ''L. acidophilus'' from yogurt reportedly can make a 3.0-3.5 pH sour wort in 24 hours, without producing vomit/fecal flavors and aromas. To sour 5 gallons of wort with yogurt, make a 1 liter batch of unhopped starter wort the day before brew day. Add 2-4 teaspoons of live yogurt to the starter wort. Maintain a 100-110°F (37.8-43.3°C) temperature for about 24 hours. On brew day, and after the 24 hour sour starter is finished, mash and sparge a low IBU wort as normal, boil for a few minutes, and then chill the wort down to 100-110°F (37.8-43.3°C). Pitch the yogurt starter into the wort, and hold the temperature as close to the 100-110°F (37.8-43.3°C) range as possible. Bubbling CO2 through the wort is advised if possible to prevent potential off flavors, but is not required. Within 24 hours, the wort should be down in the 3.x pH range. Boil the wort, adding any hops that the recipe calls for, yeast nutrient, etc., and then cool the wort down to Saccharomyces pitching temperatures. Bob's your uncle! <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1029598090401738/?comment_id=1030074730354074&offset=0&total_comments=25 Conversation with Mike Karnowski of Green Man Brewery on the MTF Facebook group. 3/3/2015.]</ref> Many strains of ''L. acidophilus'', which is one of the more common species of ''Lactobacillus'' found in yogurt, produce toxins that can kill other species of ''Lactobacillus''. See [[Lactobacillus#Bacteriocins|''Lactobacillus'' bacteriocins]] for more information.

[[File:Sourgrains.jpg|thumb|100px|Derek Springer's grain starter]] If the brewer wants to use the LAB found naturally on the husks of grains, and doesn't want to risk pitching grains into the entire batch of wort, a Lacto starter culture with grain can be made. The benefit of this is that if the culture contains any vomit, fecal, or putrid aromas, it can be thrown away and tried again. If the starter needs to be dumped, try again with a different malt source; microbial populations can vary greatly between maltsters, harvest years, and malt type <ref>[[Grain#Microbial_Populations_on_Barley|Microbial Populations on Barley]]</ref>. The following is [http://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/lactobacillus-starter-guide/ Derek Springer's grain starter processon the Five Blades Brewing blog] <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1050331444995069/?comment_id=1050399004988313&offset=0&total_comments=18&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D Conversation with Derek Springer on Milk The Funk. 4/4/2015.]</ref>:

# Add 1/2 tsp 88% lactic acid (should get pH down < to 4.0 - 4.5to help inhibit off-flavor producing microbes).

# After 2-3 days, strain the grains out using a colander. If no off aromas are detected, pitch the entire starter into the wort using one of the methods described on the [[Sour WortingWort Souring]] page. If the starter is not going to be used right away, storing it in the fridge for up to a couple of weeks should be fine. If the starter still smells sweet/vegital then it should be ok to use. However if the starter starts to produce aromas of feces or vomit, do not use it <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1474146382613571/?comment_id=1474383142589895&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R4%22%7D Conversation with Bryan of Sui Generis Blog on MTF. 11/18/2016.]</ref>.  :'''Safety note''': do not drink wort from grain starters. It has been reported that wort soured from grain often carries live ''Salmonella bongori'' for at least two days after souring, which is associated with non-lethal food poisoning. This microbe will die during or after primary fermentation See [[Grain#Malt_Inoculated_Wort|Malt Inoculated Wort]] and [[Wild_Yeast_Isolation#Safety|Wild Yeast Starters and Safety]] for more information.''

See For science, see also :* [[Grain#Microbial_Populations_on_Barley|Microbial Populations on Barley]].* [https://experiment.com/projects/mapping-the-sour-beer-microbiome/results Blue Owl Brewing's Jeff Young and Dr. Matt Bochman's lab examine microbial grain population dynamics once inoculated in wort.]

# Add the entire starter to wort using one of the methods described on the [[Sour WortingWort Souring]] page.

# After fermentation finishes, add the entire starter to the wort. Reference the [[Sour WortingWort Souring]] page for further brewing procedures.

* See also [https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1282563468438531/ Jason Starling's process for using sauerkraut to make sour beer on MTF.] Jason advises that using brine that is [https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1594042507290624/?comment_id=1594160837278791&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D 4 weeks old has given better, cleaner acidity without yeast fermentation].

Some commercial [https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-790-lactobacillus.aspx?activeingredientid=790&activeingredientname=lactobacillus probiotics ] have been successfully used to produce ''Lactobacillus'' cultures (many brands have also failed at providing usable bacteria according to some homebrewers <ref>[http://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/32tny4/probiotic_lacto_for_souring/cqej952 Conversation on Reddit. April 2015.]</ref>). Probiotics that are classified as "dietary supplimentssupplements", as opposed to "drugs", may not be as free of contaminates as pure cultures from brewing industry yeast labs <ref>[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294522/ Regulatory Oversight and Safety of Probiotic Use. Veena Venugopalan, Kimberly A. Shriner, and Annie Wong-Beringer. Nov 2010.]</ref>. The following probiotics are examples of brands, methods, and results that MTF members have had <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1075891152439098/ Conversation on MTF about using Probiotics. 5/22/2015.]</ref>. Dried forms of ''Lactobacillus'' should be stored refrigerated because viability has been seen to decrease as much as 80x when stored at room temperatures <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1067614393266774/ Conversation with Bryan of Sui Generis Blog on Milk The Funk. 05/04/2015.]</ref>. Use only fresh products whenever possible (viability of ''Lactobacillus'' drops quickly over time in general), avoid products that have been stored at room temperature (pill and liquid format), and don't bother using expired products <ref>[http://goodbelly.com/faq/ GoodBelly FAQ. Retrieved 07/23/2016.]</ref>. Making a starter is a good way to ensure that the cells are still viable.

See [http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2015/07/choosing-right-probiotics-for-souring.html this Sui Generis Blog article on which Probiotics to avoid based on the genera of microbes they contain]. Probiotics should have their contents listed plainly on their packaging. Avoid probiotics for animals as they tend to contain organisms that produce off-flavors such as ''Enterococcus'', ''Clostridium'', or ''Bacillus'' <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1195902047104674/?comment_id=1195949307099948&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D Conversation with DeWayne Schaaf on MTF. 12/17/2015.]</ref>. If [[Wort Souring|souring wort]], also avoid any probiotics that have ''Saccharomyces'' species in them because lactic acid bacteria can have a tough time quickly producing acidity if it is competeing with an active yeast fermentation.

Devin Bell has experienced getting good sourness by co-pitching probiotics with ''L. plantarum'' with yeast, or even after primary fermentation (also known as the ==="Reverse MTF SourMethod"). In the case of pitching ===Moved to [[Mixed_Fermentation#Souring_Without_Brettanomyces|Mixed Fermentation; Souring Without ''L. plantarumBrettanomyces'' after fermetnation, the beer turned out like a sour saison, where as co-pitched makes for a better Berliner Weisse or Gose style beer. This has also improved head retention in his beers. See [https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1217518078276404/ this thread for details]].

===General tips Tips and Experiences on using Using Probiotics===* The use of even small amounts of hops with probiotics:, especially ''L. plantarum'' based probiotics, will greatly inhibit their souring effect. It is recommended not to use any hops while the probiotics are souring wort or beer (hops can be added post-souring; adding hops post-souring, even dry hopping, will usually stop the lactic acid production).

* For GoodBelly shots, only 1-2 shots (or 8 oz from a 32 oz carton) for 5 gallons of wort are needed (~20 billion cells for 5 gallons). That scales to a 1.5 - 2 cartons per BBL for the commercial scale (although some have reported that just over 1 carton per BBL is enough; freshness plays a factor) <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1821240741237465/ Various MTF Members. Milk The Funk thread on how many cartons of GoodBelly to use. 09/14/2017.]</ref>. If using ''fresh '' GoodBelly that has been stored cold, don't bother making a starter(by checking to see if the pH gets lower, a starter will tell you if the bacteria is viable, but it will also increase the possibility of contamination). Mango is the preferred flavor because it imparts little flavor to the beer, but others can be used as well <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1390440970984113/ Conversation on MTF about how many GoodBelly shots to use for kettle souring. 08/29/2016.]</ref>.* Starters can be avoided for ''fresh'' tablet probiotics that have been stored cold, although measuring the pH of a starter will verify that the probiotic pills are still good to use. For Swansons L. plantarum tablets (5 billion cells per tablet), 7-10 tablets for 5 gallons of wort and held at 80-100°F for 1-2 days reportedly works well (temperature control and very warm temperatures are not necessary for ''L. plantarum'' in general) <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1217518078276404/?comment_id=1217577824937096&reply_comment_id=1440146586013551&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D MTF thread on how many Swansons tablets can be pitched directly without a starter. 01/20/2016.]</ref>.* Both liquid and pill format probiotics are extremely shelf unstable. They should be stored cold. Liquid probiotics may not be viable after two weeks of cold storage (see expiration date on the package). If liquid or pill format probiotics are stored at room temperature or warmer for any length of time, they may not be viable and a starter is recommended to see if they will acidify wort <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1448945931800283/?comment_id=1448963338465209&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R4%22%7D Conversation with Devin Bell about storage and viability of probiotics. 10/25/2016.]</ref>. Note that [[Lactobacillus#Culture_Charts|cultures from brewing labs]] have reportedly better shelf lives than probiotics <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1457254734302736/?comment_id=1458550380839838&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D Conversation with Malcolm Frazer on MTF regarding shelf life of OYL Lacto. 11/03/2016.] </ref>.* According to a representative of GoodBelly™ on MTF: "You're guaranteed 20 billion (cells) at time of consumption (often more)... We know that our products are within the claimed probiotic count range during shelf-life but every product has different count stability characteristics. The dynamics of the change/decline in cell counts is very different at room temperature than it is at refrigeration temperature... Fizziness may come from high metabolic activity or growth of Lp299v. A fizzy product may or may not have elevated counts as – at some point – the counts may go down again when high levels of lactic acid are in the product...StraightShot and our SuperShots are the most (cell count) stable. " <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1745396375488569/?comment_id=1746279895400217&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D Marla and Armin from GoodBelly™. Milk The Funk Facebook group. 07/05/2017.]</ref>

4 capsules Swanson Planatarum Plantarum probiotic in 1 liter of 1.040 wort fermented in high 70°'s F in garage.after After 36hr PH ~3.6 (using cheap wine PH strips) Tasted clean and noticebly noticeably sour with fairly strong yogurt like aroma. (not how I would want my beer to smell)

Starter chilled over night overnight and decanted most liquid before pitching

Wort PH 4.5 using colorphast colorfast strips

The acidity in my beer was just a little more bright brighter than the Ithaca beer, but overall the two were very similar.

| David Frank || Goodbelly GoodBelly Probiotic Drink || Warmed up 2 Goodbelly GoodBelly probiotic drinks to room temperature and then pitched it into unboiled wort(in a purged keg). Sour worted at 95°F. || Starting pH was around 4.7 (pre-acidified the mash).

pH at 3.5 after 48 hours - massive co2(and possibly ethanol) production...when I purged the keg, the beer exploded out. The keg was under around 30psi. Very messy to get it out of the keg and into the kettle.

Beer was then boiled for 20min, chilled and fermented with kolsch Kölsch yeast.

| Brett Smith || Goodbelly GoodBelly Flavored Drinks Probiotic Drink || 700ml starter of 1.040 wort. Chill to 95°F. Fill to 1000 with Goodbelly GoodBelly drink. I like the mango as it doesn't seem to leave much aroma at all. Let this starter go for 24 hours. You'll see the massive growth.

Brew beer however you choose. Cool to 100°F. Pitch Goodbelly GoodBelly starter. Let temperature free fall. Check pH in 24 hours, should be 3.4-3.6. I like to let my culture go 36 hours and I'm almost guaranteed 3.4. Then pitch yeast to ferment.

| Ed Coffey || Swansons Swanson's L. plantarum Probiotic Pills || Cracked open 3 pills and added to 750ml of DME starter wort, kept at 90°F for 36 hours then pitched into 100°F wort. || I've done this twice now, reached a PH of ~3.30 in 48 hours at 95-100°F.

| Abel || Goodbelly GoodBelly Probiotic Drink || Let warm up to temp and pitch straight in. || Ph before 5.4, ph at the end was 3.2. Temp held at 95°F for 3.5 days then pitch Sacch and lowered to regular ferment temp.

| Stuart Grant <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1147535555274657/ Stuart Grant's experience with Aussie probiotics. 10/15/2015.]</ref> || Ethical Nutrients - IBS Support (Australia) || Added 120 billion cells. Pitched at 29°C/84°F, and I'm letting it fall to room temp. 20 hours since pitching got to 3.87 pH. Temp has dropped to 20°C/68°F. No change in SG (1.045). After 25 hours, temp down to 19°C and pH down to 3.67. After 35 hours, temp 18°C, pH 3.53, SG 1.045 (unchanged). Lactic flavour is very clean; slightly appleyapple like. It barely tastes tart with all that sugar. After 44 hours, temp 18°C, pH 3.43, SG 1.045 (unchanged). I split the wort in half. First half I boiled for 20 mins with some hops then pitched US-05; second half I did not boil, but added dry hops and Lochristi Brett slurry. || The no-boil version which had Lochristi Brett added is down to 1.016 and pH 3.32, while the boiled version pitched with US-05 is down to 1.008 and pH 3.23 (weird that it's lower). Brett version is quite funky with some acetic acid. Clean version is super clean, and ready for bottling soon. Lovely clean sourness. The dry hops come across as lemon zesty. Superbly refreshing! See [https://thebeerminimum.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/kettle-souring-with-probiotics-australian-edition/ Stuart's blog post].|-| Marius Loktu <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1287382624623282/?comment_id=1287392701288941&/reply_comment_id=1287403764621168&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R8%22%7D Conversation with Marius Loktu about Norwegian probiotics on MTF. 04/18/2016.] </ref> || ProbiMage melkesyrebakterier (available in [https://www.vitusapotek.no/probimage-melkesyrebakterier-40-kapsler/p/817233 Norway], [https://m.apoteket.se/produkter/208211 Sweden], and [https://www.nu3.dk/green-medicine-probimage-40-styk.html Denmark]) || I tend to use 6-8 per 20-25L. (just the content) Turning off heat at about 35C, rack to carboy and pitch content of capsules. Let it naturally reach ambient. Then I pitch yeast after 2-3 days. (always gets me below 3.5 PH) Always sticking with 0 IBU. Have started playing around with co-pitching and pitching lacto after the yeast as well. To get more yeast character from primary. Its capsules. So you just open them up and use the powder inside. It's good not having wet hands doing this. || Good results reported.||-| Hrafnkell Freyr Magnússon <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1960485313979673/ Hrafnkell Freyr Magnússon. Milk The Funk Facebook group post about Bio-Kult probiotic. 01/30/2018.]</ref> || Bio-Kult || Made two kettle soured beers with this probiotic and they both came out great. The second I pitched 11x capsules in ~22 liters of wort and it dropped to pH 3.2 in just under two days at 32°C. || Taste is nice and clean. Will definitely use this strain more.

Matt Spaanem on MTF on using ginger bug: "A ginger bug is just wild yeast and bacteria harvested from ginger root. Just grate up some ginger and add it to some sugar water. After a few days it starts visibly fermenting and you've got your bug... FG 0.995 makes this ~4.3% (OG ~1.028) uncarbed it's a bit dry/puckering/tannic (probably from the tea) with a friendly orangyorangey/coriander flavored tartness and some funk hiding in the background. Ginger follows you throughout and lingers on the tongue. Overall it's good , if a bit dry. I may chaptalize the keg if it still annoys me after it's its carbed. I should give these bugs a go in an all malt 'real' beer... it was pretty good carbed and dry. I've since used the bug to ferment an actual beer (with malt/grain derived sugars instead of just sucrose) and it was very attenuative and the ''Brettanomyces'' made itself known for sure, the ''Lactobacillus'' less so, the beer was hopped to 8 IBU. It was in primary for 5 months and has been in secondary for ~2 months to see if anything more happens with it.

* [[Sour WortingWort Souring]]