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Other techniques for detected THP in food have been developed, which might be applicable to wine or beer. For example, Grimm Kiyomichi et al. (20012023) developed a technique for detecting 2simple method to accurately detect ATHP, ETHP, and APY using gas chromatography-acetyl pyrroline mass spectrometry with stir bar sorptive extraction (APY or 2APSBSE-GC–MS instrumentation) in rice. The rice samples had to be heated to 80-85°C in order to extract the volatile APY, Thermal desorption and then APY levels in the headspace of the rice container could be detected injection were performed using solid phase microextraction a Twister thermal desorption unit (SPMETDU) and a Gerstel CIS 4 cooled injection system with fibers that operate a programmable temperature vaporization (PTV) inlet, installed on an Agilent 6890 gas chromatograph combined with an Agilent 5975 Mass Selective Detector (Agilent Technologies, Massy, France), equipped with a Gerstel MPS 2 autosampler (Gerstel, Mülheim an der Ruhr, Germany). An HP-5MS fused-silica capillary column (30 m × 0.25 mm, 0.25 µm, film thickness, SGE, Courtaboeuf, France) was used, with helium as carrier gas (Messer France S.A.S, Suresnes, France) at the higher temperatures a constant pressure of 70 kPa, corresponding to an initial flow of 1.3 mL.min−1 <ref>[https://www.ncbisciencedirect.nlm.nih.govcom/science/article/abs/pubmedpii/11170584 Screening for 2-acetyl-1S0308814623000705 Daiki Kiyomichi, Céline Franc, Pierre Moulis, Laurent Riquier, Patricia Ballestra, Stéphanie Marchand, Sophie Tempère, Gilles de Revel. Investigation into mousy off-pyrroline flavor in the headspace of rice wine using SPME/GCgas chromatography-MSmass spectrometry with stir bar sorptive extraction. Grimm CCFood Chemistry, Volume 411, 2023, Bergman C135454, Delgado JTISSN 0308-8146, Bryant Rhttps://doi.org/10.1016/j.foodchem.2023. 2001135454.]</ref>. It isn't known if such methods would See also work for measuring THP compounds [https://ives-technicalreviews.eu/article/view/7867 "Simultaneous assay of mousy off-flavor markers in beer or wine, but they could provide a potential option for beer and wine researchers" Ives Technical Review].

Other techniques for detected THP in food have been developed, which might be applicable to wine or beer. For example, Grimm et al. (2001) developed a technique for detecting 2-acetyl pyrroline (APY or 2AP) in rice. The rice samples had to be heated to 80-85°C in order to extract the volatile APY, and then APY levels in the headspace of the rice container could be detected using solid phase microextraction (SPME) with fibers that operate at the higher temperatures <ref>[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11170584 Screening for 2-acetyl-1-pyrroline in the headspace of rice using SPME/GC-MS. Grimm CC, Bergman C, Delgado JT, Bryant R. 2001.]</ref>. It isn't known if such methods would also work for measuring THP compounds in beer or wine, but they could provide a potential option for beer and wine researchers. Cider makers have used a baking soda in water solution to help detect THP. Dissolve a small amount of baking soda in water, swish the solution in your mouth for a few seconds, and then spit it out. While the pH of the saliva in your mouth is raised from the baking soda solution, taste the beer/wine/cider to more easily detect THP <ref>[https://groups.google.com/g/cider-workshop/c/a9JcCERQTYk?pli=1 "testing for mouse". Testing for Mouse. Retrieved 04/06/2021.]</ref>.

2-acetyl pyrroline (abbreviated: APY, ACPY, or AP) is a more volatile but more potent form of THP. It has a significantly stronger odor and lower odor threshold in wine than ATHP. It can also be found in damp pearl millet, toasted bread, taco shells, tortilla chips, boiled potatoes, cooked sweet corn products, roasted sesame seeds, pan-fired green teas, cured tobacco leaves, peanut and pumpkin seed oils, honey, several soy-based products, and more aromatic rice such as Indian Basmati, as well as many other foods. APY has also been detected in a pale lager beer from Bavaria <ref>[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01190873 Primary odorants of pale lager beer. Peter Schieberle. 1991.]</ref>. APY from microbial metabolism is primarily produced by heterofermentative LAB (see [[Tetrahydropyridine#Lactic_Acid_Bacteria|below]]). In food, APY formation is due to cooking and thought to be associated with Maillard reactions, and its presence ages out quickly in food. For example, Schieberle (1989) showed that heating up yeast and sucrose produced APY, simulating how APY could be produced during baking bread <ref><[https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/bk-1989-0409.ch025 Formation of 2-Acetyl-l-pyrroline and Other Important Flavor Compounds in Wheat Bread Crust. Peter Schieberle. 1989. DOI: 10.1021/bk-1989-0409.ch025.]</ref>. It is extremely volatile; so much so that the food industry has created powdered forms of APY to increase the flavor stability of some foods associated with it. Some plants such as rice crops, Pandan leaves (''Pandanus amaryllifolius''), "bread flowers" (''Vallaris glabra''), Myabi muskmelon fruit, chempedak fruit and jackfruit contain varying levels of APY naturally <ref name="Snowdon"></ref><ref name="Grbin_1996" /><ref name="Adams_2005">[http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cr040097y Chemistry of 2-Acetyl-1-pyrroline, 6-Acetyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydropyridine, 2-Acetyl-2-thiazoline, and 5-Acetyl-2,3-dihydro-4H-thiazine:  Extraordinary Maillard Flavor Compounds. An Adams and Norbert De Kimpe. 2005.]</ref><ref>[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1672630823001105 Abiotic and Biotic Factors Controlling Grain Aroma along the Value Chain of Fragrant Rice: A Review. Ayut Kongpun, Tonapha Pusadee, Pennapa Jaksomsak, Kawiporn chinachanta, Patcharin Tuiwong, Phukjira Chan-In, Sawika Konsaeng, Wasu Pathom-Aree, Suchila Utasee, Benjamapohn Wangkaew, Chanakan Prom-U-Thai. Rice Science. 2023. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.rsci.2023.11.004.]</ref>.

It is thought that THP in mousy wines/beers is mostly produced by microorganisms. All species of ''[[Brettanomyces]] '' can produce forms of tetrahydropyridine in varying amounts, although some below threshold. Additionally, Lactic Acid Bacteria (LAB) including ''[[Lactobacillus]] '' and ''[[Pediococcus]] '' can produce forms of THP. Acetic Acid Bactera (AAB) has also been demonstrated to produce forms of THP <ref name="Snowdon"></ref><ref name="Grbin_2000" />.

Moulis et al. (2023) studied THP production by 22 strains of ''Brettanomyces bruxellensis'', 20 strains of ''Oenococcus oeni'' and 10 strains of ''Lentilactobacillus hilgardii'' (formerly classified as ''Lactobacillus hilgardii''), all of which have been reported to produce THP compounds. They found that all strains could produce ATHP, but not all strains could produce ETHP or APY. This variability was determined mostly by species, but also by strain. for example, all of the 22 ''B. bruxellensis'' strains only produced ATHP and ETHP and not APY. Variability between strains was less pronounced for the species ''L. hilgardii'' compared to the ''B. bruxellensis'' and ''O. oeni'' strains (different strains of ''B. bruxellensis'', for example, produced much different levels of ATHP/ETHP, where as every strain of ''L. hilgardii'' produced relatively the same amount of APY). The researchers also noted that repeatability of THP levels was difficult to achieve, and they owed this to unknown variables such as the physiological state of the cells at time of inoculation into the test media. Interestingly, there was no correlation between strain genealogy and how much THP they produced. The researchers also isolated other species from 25 French wines with mouse taint, including ''S. cerevisiae'', ''Pichia manshurica'', ''Priceomyces carsonii'', ''Pediococcus parvulus'', but none of these strains produced THP in the test growth media <ref name="Moulis_2023" />.  ===''Brettanomyces''===

Although ''Brettanomyces'' is capable of producing APY from L-ornithine <ref name="Grbin_2007" />, the amount produced is much less than that of LAB and high amounts of L-ornithine are required. In wine, there isn't enough L-ornithine present to production significant amounts of APY from L-ornithine. Therefore, the presence of APY (which is much easier to detect aromatically than ATHP) indicates a bacterial contamination in wine (it is unknown if this applies to beer) <ref name="Snowdon"></ref>. Additionally, Moulis et al. (2023) found that out of 25 French wines with THP, only 20% of them had ''B. bruxellensis'' in them, indicating that THP is mostly produced by bacteria or chemically in wine <ref name="Moulis_2023" />.

The presence of the "mousy off-flavor" caused by forms of THP appears to be temporary in beer. Although not much is known about the degradation or metabolic breakdown of ATHP/ETHP, it tends to age out of beer after 2-6 months. Since the odor/taste threshold for ETHP is much higher than ATHP, and ATHP appears to be metabolized into ETHP by ''Brettanomyces'' over time, this may be one of the mechanisms by which the mousy off-flavor ages out of beer. The possibility of ETHP breakdown is not mentioned in any studies that we know of, although Moulis et al. (2023) reported that for organisms that produced ETHP, there was always a 1:10 ratio between ETHP/ATHP or ETHP/APY, suggesting that this ratio might be governed by the chemistry of the media used and/or the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_potential reduction potential] <ref name="Moulis_2023" />. Another unknown is why does ''Brettanomyces'' produce ATHP shortly after kegging and force carbonating a beer that has reached final gravity. The most likely cause is oxygen pick up during the kegging process. Pitching fresh ''Saccharomyces'' at bottling/kegging time and naturally carbonating the beer with sugar has reportedly reduced mousy off-flavor detection, perhaps because ''Saccharomyces'' metabolizes both the oxygen and sugar faster than ''Brettanomyces''.

Heterofermentative [[Lactobacillus]] spp., particularly ''L. hilgardii'' (reclassified as ''Lentilactobacillus hilgardii'') and ''L. brevis''(reclassified as ''Levilactobacillus brevis''), as well as ''Leuconostoc oeni'' <ref name="Grbin_1996" />, can also produce high levels of ATHP, and to a lesser extent APY and ETHP from L-lysine/L-ornithine, ethanol (must be present), and iron. Although many strains of heterofermentative lactic acid bacteria can produce THP, not all do. For example, Costello et al (2008) found that all strains tested of ''L. brevis'' (3 strains tested), ''L. bucherni'' (3 strains tested), and ''L.hilgardii'' (8 strains tested) produced THP, several heterofermentative species did not produce any detectable levels of THP in a grape-based media (one strain each of ''L. fermentum'' and ''L. cellobiosus''). Some strains within a species produce high amounts while others produce low amounts, for example Costell et al. (2008) found that some strains of ''O. oeni'' produced very high amounts between 50-150 µg/L while others produced very little between 5-20 µg/L in a grape-based media <ref name="Costello_2008">[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-0238.2001.tb00205.x/abstract Ability of lactic acid bacteria to produce N-heterocycles causing mousy off-flavour in wine. PETER J. COSTELLO1, TERRY H. LEE1, and PAULA. HENSCHKE. 2008.]</ref>. A strain of ''L. plantarum'' (L11a) was shown to produce relatively low amounts. L-lysine stimulates production of ATHP, and L-ornithine stimulates the production of APY <ref name="Costello">[http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf020341r Mousy Off-Flavor of Wine:  Precursors and Biosynthesis of the Causative N-Heterocycles 2-Ethyltetrahydropyridine, 2-Acetyltetrahydropyridine, and 2-Acetyl-1-pyrroline by Lactobacillus hilgardii DSM 20176. Peter J. Costello and Paul A. Henschke. 2002.]</ref><ref>[http://www.ajevonline.org/content/37/2/127.abstract Formation of Substituted Tetrahydropyridines by Species of Brettanomyces and Lactobacillus Isolated from Mousy Wines. Tamila Heresztyn. 1986.]</ref><ref name="Costello_2008" /><ref>Sparrows, Jeff. ''Wild Brews''. Brewers Publications. 2005. Pg. 112.</ref><ref>[https://books.google.com/books?id=tFjsAuo5WocC&pg=PA348&lpg=PA348&dq=lactobacillus+Tetrahydropyridine&source=bl&ots=QUVyoFtIwK&sig=h1cdjB0r1pIRX2Bms8wVA0UiLk4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4DX_VPz5CsH6oQSAzoGgBA&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=lactobacillus%20Tetrahydropyridine&f=false Lahtinen, Ouwehand, Salminen, von Wright. Lactic Acid Bacteria: Microbiological and Functional Aspects, Fourth Edition. Pg 348.]</ref><ref>[http://ajevonline.org/content/37/2/127.short Heresztyn, Tamila. Formation of Substituted Tetrahydropyridines by Species of Brettanomyces and Lactobacillus Isolated from Mousy Wines.]</ref>. Acetaldehyde has a stimulatory effect on ATHP and APY production, but is not required. No studies have been done to show whether or not oxygen plays a role in ATHP/APY production in LAB <ref name="Snowdon"></ref>. Most species of [[Pediococcus]] do not create forms of THP, although a few species do produce relatively small amounts. In particular, these include ''P. pentosaceus'' <ref>[http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q03HT0 UniProt article. Retrieved 3/10/2015.]</ref><ref>[http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/U5ZF76 UniProt article. Retrieved 3/10/2015.]</ref>, and ''P. clausenii'' <ref>[http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/G8PEU4 UniProt article. Retrieved 3/10/2015.]</ref>, although one study found no THP in two strains of ''P. pentocaseus'' and only transient/occasional THP production in one out of five strains of ''P. parvulus'' <ref name="Costello" />. ''Oenococcus oeni'' and ''Leuconostoc mesenteroides'' have also been associated with creating ATHP, APY, and ETHP all above threshold amounts. Since only heterofermentative species produce significant amounts of THP, it is thought that its production is linked to the heterolactic pathway, and thus the metabolism of sugars in LAB <ref name="Costello"></ref>. A pathway for APY and ATHP production in ''Lactobacillus hilgardii'' was proposed by Costello and Henschke, which involves the intake of lysine or ornithine, along with ethanol (which is broken down into acetaldehyde) to produce APY and ATHP <ref name="Costello" />. ''Lactobacillus pontis'' has been shown to break down proteins via proteolysis, yielding free amino acids such as ornithine which could serve as precursors to THP formation, and it might be [[Lactobacillus#Foam_Degradation|reasonable to presume]] that other species of ''Lactobacillus'' could also free up ornithine as a precursor to THP <ref name="Adams_2005" />.

Although research is limited, acetic acid bacteria (''Gluconobacter'' sp. and many strains of ''Acetobacter aceti'') have been shown to produce forms of THP <ref name="Snowdon"></ref>. Mediterranean dried sauses covered in [[Mold|mould]] have been characterized as having APY as a flavor contributor. The source of the APY was identified with a mould that grows on the surface called ''Peniciilium nalgiovense'' <ref name="Adams_2005" />. Moulis et al. (2023) identified several strains of acetic acid bacteria in 32% of selected French wines with mouse taint, but none of the strains produced THP when tested individually in model medium <ref name="Moulis_2023" />.